CES Letter Answers

Appearance

Urim and Thummim ​

The claim:

The CES Letter argues that Joseph Smith used "the same magic device or 'Ouija Board'" — a seer stone in a hat — to translate the Book of Mormon, and that the Church obscured this by promoting images of Joseph studying the plates with the "Urim and Thummim" when the actual instrument was a common rock.[1]

Embedded in this argument is a conflation. The CES Letter treats "seer stone" and "Urim and Thummim" as though they are two competing stories — one true, one false. Joseph Smith used two distinct instruments at different stages, and both came to be called the "Urim and Thummim" through a terminological evolution that began in 1833.

How did two instruments become one name — and does that constitute a cover-up?

Two instruments, not two stories ​

Joseph Smith used two types of translation instruments. They were physically different, had different origins, and were used at different stages.

FeatureNephite interpretersSeer stone
DescriptionTwo white or clear stones set in silver bows, attached to a breastplate[2]A chocolate-colored, egg-shaped stone, about the size of an egg but flatter[3]
OriginFound with the gold plates; prepared anciently and "handed down from generation to generation"[4]Found by Joseph years earlier while digging a well[5]
When usedEarly translation period, including the lost 116 pages[6]Most of the surviving Book of Mormon text[6:1]
What happened to itReturned to the angel after the loss of the 116 pages, according to David Whitmer[7]Retained by Joseph; later passed to Oliver Cowdery, then through a chain of custody to the Church[3:1]

Emma Smith confirmed the sequence: "The first that my husband translated was by use of the Urim and Thummim, and that was the part that Martin Harris lost. After that he used a small stone, not exactly black, but was rather a dark color."[6:2]

David Whitmer was more emphatic: the interpreters were "taken away from him" because of the transgression surrounding the 116 pages, and Joseph was "allowed to go on and translate by use of a 'Seers stone.'"[7:1]

Both instruments involved the same physical process — placing the stone(s) in a hat to block out light and reading words that appeared.[5:1] The hat wasn't the instrument. It was a light shield.

For a detailed treatment of the seer stone itself — the eyewitness accounts, the publication record, the "Ouija Board" comparison, and why the method makes fraud harder to explain — see Seer Stones.

How "Urim and Thummim" became a blanket term ​

The term "Urim and Thummim" does not appear in the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon calls the instruments "interpreters."[4:1] The biblical term entered the picture through a specific chain of events.

DateWhat happened
1829Newspapers described Joseph's instruments as "spectacles" or "stones." No one called them "Urim and Thummim."[8]
Jan 1833W.W. Phelps first connected the instruments to the biblical term: "a pair of Interpreters, or spectacles — (known, perhaps, in ancient days as Teraphim, or Urim and Thummim)."[9]
Oct 1834Oliver Cowdery wrote that Joseph translated "with the Urim and Thummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, 'Interpreters.'"[10]
1835The Doctrine and Covenants incorporated the term "Urim and Thummim" into revelations that had originally used the word "spectacles" in the 1833 Book of Commandments.[11]
By 1835Joseph himself "most often used the term 'Urim and Thummim' when speaking of translation and rarely used the terms 'interpreters' or 'spectacles.'"[5:2]
Post-1833The term expanded to cover the seer stone as well — Joseph and his associates treated "Urim and Thummim" as "a descriptive category of instruments for obtaining divine revelations and less as the name of a specific instrument."[5:3]

Notice the progression. In 1829, the instruments were "spectacles." By 1833, Phelps tentatively connected them to the biblical Urim and Thummim — note the hedging word "perhaps." By 1835, the biblical name had become standard. And it expanded to cover both instruments.

This is how terminology evolves in real time. People reach for a familiar biblical analogy, it catches on, and within a few years the analogy becomes the default label. "Urim and Thummim" stuck the same way — a biblical label applied to a new category of instruments, eventually covering both.

The biblical precedent is specific ​

The CES Letter treats the Urim and Thummim as a label the Church retroactively applied to make a common rock sound sacred. But the early Saints didn't invent the connection out of nothing. The parallels between the Nephite interpreters and the biblical Urim and Thummim are detailed.

FeatureBiblical Urim and ThummimNephite interpreters
Physical formStones placed inside the high priest's breastplate (Exodus 28:30)[12]Two stones set in silver bows, attached to a breastplate[2:1]
Association with a breastplatePlaced "in the breastplate of judgment" upon Aaron's heart[12:1]Breastplate with "a pocket prepared on the left side, immediately over the heart"[13]
FunctionUsed to receive divine revelation (Numbers 27:21; 1 Samuel 28:6)[14]Used to translate and receive revelation[4:2]
EtymologyUrim likely from Hebrew root meaning "lights"; Van Dam argues they functioned through "an appearance of light"[15]Witnesses reported "bright luminous letters" and "letters of fire" appearing on the stones[16]
Revelatory complexityVan Dam argues the instrument enabled "something very lively and direct" — not mere lot-casting[15:1]Joseph received detailed, lengthy revelations — far more than yes/no answers[17]

Cornelis Van Dam, a non-Latter-day Saint scholar, published the first exhaustive academic study of the biblical Urim and Thummim since 1824. His conclusions — that the instruments produced revelatory light and enabled complex prophetic communication — independently strengthened the connection the early Saints had drawn.[15:2]

The Book of Mormon itself describes the interpreters in language echoing the biblical tradition. Mosiah 28:13-14 describes "two stones which were fastened into the two rims of a bow" that were "prepared from the beginning" for translation. Alma 37:23-24 uses the word "interpreters" — but the original 1830 edition read "directors," which may reflect the Hebrew word urim ("lights" or "directors"), a detail that Stan Spencer argues reveals sophisticated Hebrew wordplay in the underlying text.[18]

Was there a cover-up? ​

The CES Letter's emotional core is the feeling of betrayal: "I was taught one thing, and the truth was something else."

That feeling is legitimate. Plenty of lifelong members first learned about the seer stone from critics rather than from Sunday School. That's a real failure of historical education, and the Church has acknowledged as much by publishing the Gospel Topics Essays and the seer stone photograph.[5:4][3:2]

But a failure of education is not the same as a deliberate cover-up. And "the Church taught the Urim and Thummim" and "Joseph used a seer stone" aren't contradictory statements — they're both true, because the seer stone was called the Urim and Thummim.

The confusion has a source, and it isn't institutional deception. It's the fact that a single term — "Urim and Thummim" — was applied to two different instruments starting in the 1830s.

Here is what happened:

  1. Joseph used the Nephite interpreters, then the seer stone.
  2. Both came to be called "Urim and Thummim" by 1835.
  3. Over time, most members heard "Urim and Thummim" and pictured the spectacle-like interpreters — the more visually dramatic instrument.
  4. Artists painted what they imagined. Robert J. Matthews, who served on the Church's Correlation Committee for twenty-five years, recalled that project managers never sent artwork for review — "when you see the artwork, that makes all the difference, but it was always too late then."[19]
  5. The seer stone details were published repeatedly — in the Improvement Era (1939), The Friend (1974), Deseret Book (1976), the Ensign (1977, 1993), and the Gospel Topics Essays (2013) — but most members didn't encounter them or didn't register the distinction.[20]

The CES Letter quotes two BYU professors — Joseph Fielding McConkie and Craig J. Ostler — who rejected the seer stone account in 2000.[21] Their skepticism is real and documented. But it wasn't the Church's position. Elder Russell M. Nelson published David Whitmer's full seer-stone-in-hat description in the Ensign seven years before McConkie and Ostler rejected it — in a talk adapted from an address to mission presidents.[22]

Two professors disagreeing with published evidence doesn't equal institutional concealment. It means two professors hadn't caught up with their own institution's publications.

For a full timeline of Church publications discussing the seer stone and a detailed treatment of the McConkie-Ostler objection, see Seer Stones.

Key Point

The terminological merger happened in the 1830s, not the 1950s. Joseph Smith himself used "Urim and Thummim" to describe both instruments. The Church didn't rename the seer stone to hide it — it inherited a naming convention that Joseph established.

From external instruments to internal capacity ​

The CES Letter quotes McConkie and Ostler's strongest objection: why would God prepare the Nephite interpreters for centuries only to have Joseph use a seer stone instead?[21:1]

The premise is wrong. The interpreters were used — for the earliest portion of the translation, including the 116 pages. They weren't bypassed. They were the starting point.

What happened next fits a pattern visible throughout scripture: progression from external aids to spiritual maturity. Orson Pratt reported that Joseph explained "the Lord gave him the Urim and Thummim when he was inexperienced in the Spirit of inspiration. But now he had advanced so far that he understood the operations of that Spirit and did not need the assistance of that instrument."[23]

The interpreters served as Joseph's initial instrument. As his capacity grew, he moved to a simpler instrument — his own seer stone — and eventually, for later revelatory work like the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible, needed no physical instrument at all.[3:3]

That trajectory — from external instruments to internal spiritual capacity — appears throughout scripture. It isn't a scandal. It's how spiritual development works.

What the "terminology confusion" actually shows ​

Critics frame the terminological merger as evidence of deception. Turn the argument around.

If Joseph Smith were fabricating a story, he would have every reason to keep the instruments separate — to maintain that the sacred Nephite interpreters were the sole translation instrument and to hide the embarrassing seer stone. The fact that Joseph and his associates openly called the seer stone "Urim and Thummim" suggests they saw no conflict between the instruments. They treated the seer stone as belonging to the same category of revelatory tools as the Nephite interpreters.

Oliver Cowdery, who was physically present for most of the dictation, described translating "with the Urim and Thummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, 'Interpreters.'"[10:1] He wasn't hiding anything. He was translating between terms.

B.H. Roberts made the same point in his Comprehensive History of the Church: the seer stone "possessed the qualities of Urim and Thummim, since by means of it — as well as by means of the 'Interpreters' found with the Nephite record — Joseph was able to translate."[24]

The Doctrine and Covenants language shift ​

One piece of evidence critics cite: the 1833 Book of Commandments used the word "spectacles" in what became D&C 10. The 1835 Doctrine and Covenants changed this to "Urim and Thummim."[11:1]

This is a real change. But it's a vocabulary update, not a cover-up. By 1835, "Urim and Thummim" had become the standard term for translation instruments within the Church. Updating the terminology in a new edition is what publishers do when language evolves. The King James Bible translators updated vocabulary from the Bishop's Bible. Modern editions of the U.S. Constitution capitalize differently than the original.

The underlying fact — Joseph used a revelatory instrument to translate — didn't change. The label did.

A biblical pattern restored ​

The Urim and Thummim weren't an embarrassment to the early Saints. They were evidence that God was restoring ancient patterns.

The biblical Urim and Thummim disappeared from Israelite practice after the destruction of Jerusalem in 587 BC.[14:1] Ezra 2:63 records that certain priestly functions were suspended until "a priest stood up with Urim and Thummim" — an expectation never fulfilled in the Old Testament.

The Nephite interpreters — stones in a breastplate, used for divine revelation — fit this pattern precisely. The Book of Mormon describes them being prepared anciently, preserved through generations, and entrusted to a prophet for a specific revelatory purpose.[4:3] The physical parallels with the biblical description are detailed enough that a non-Latter-day Saint scholar (Van Dam) independently strengthened the connection.[15:3]

Joseph's seer stone fits an ancient pattern too. The early Saints understood seer stones as belonging to a broader category of revelatory instruments described in scripture — not as occult novelties, but as tools God had always used to communicate with prophets.[5:5]

Bottom line: The CES Letter treats "Urim and Thummim" and "seer stone" as competing stories — one official, one hidden. In reality, Joseph Smith used two instruments at different stages, and both were called "Urim and Thummim" starting in the 1830s. The terminological merger was public, traceable, and driven by Joseph and his associates — not by later Church leaders trying to obscure the record. The real question isn't which instrument he used. It's what the instrument produced: a 270,000-word text dictated in 60 working days with no notes and no revisions.

  1. Runnells, CES Letter (2017), "Book of Mormon Translation," pp. 28-31. ↩︎

  2. Joseph Smith -- History 1:35. Joseph described discovering "two stones in silver bows -- and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim." ↩︎ ↩︎

  3. Richard E. Turley Jr., Robin S. Jensen, and Mark Ashurst-McGee, "Joseph the Seer," Ensign (October 2015): 48-55. The article includes the first published photograph of the seer stone and traces its chain of custody from Joseph Smith through Oliver Cowdery, Phineas Young, Brigham Young, and Zina Young Williams Card to the Church. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2015/10/joseph-the-seer ↩︎ ↩︎ ↩︎ ↩︎

  4. Mosiah 28:13-15, 20. The interpreters are described as "two stones which were fastened into the two rims of a bow" that were "prepared from the beginning, and were handed down from generation to generation, for the purpose of interpreting languages." See also Ether 3:23-28; Alma 37:21-24. ↩︎ ↩︎ ↩︎ ↩︎

  5. "Book of Mormon Translation," Gospel Topics Essays, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (December 2013). https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=eng ↩︎ ↩︎ ↩︎ ↩︎ ↩︎ ↩︎

  6. Emma Smith Bidamon to Emma S. Pilgrim, March 27, 1870. "The first that my husband translated was by use of the Urim and Thummim, and that was the part that Martin Harris lost. After that he used a small stone, not exactly black, but was rather a dark color." ↩︎ ↩︎ ↩︎

  7. David Whitmer, interview with the Kansas City Journal (June 5, 1881). Whitmer stated the interpreters were "taken away from him" after the 116-page loss and Joseph was "allowed to go on and translate by use of a 'Seers stone.'" See also David Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ (Richmond, MO: David Whitmer, 1887), 12. ↩︎ ↩︎

  8. Rochester Advertiser and Daily Telegraph (1829) reported Joseph's instruments as "spectacles." See Roger Nicholson, "The Spectacles, the Stone, the Hat, and the Book: A Twenty-first Century Believer's View of the Book of Mormon Translation," Interpreter: A Journal of Mormon Scripture 5 (2013): 121-190. https://interpreterfoundation.org/journal/the-spectacles-the-stone-the-hat-and-the-book-a-twenty-first-century-believers-view-of-the-book-of-mormon-translation ↩︎

  9. W.W. Phelps, The Evening and the Morning Star 1, no. 8 (January 1833). Phelps wrote that the Book of Mormon was translated "through the aid of a pair of Interpreters, or spectacles -- (known, perhaps, in ancient days as Teraphim, or Urim and Thummim)." ↩︎

  10. Oliver Cowdery, Letter I to W.W. Phelps, Latter Day Saints' Messenger and Advocate 1 (October 1834): 14. Cowdery wrote that Joseph translated "with the Urim and Thummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, 'Interpreters,' the history or record called 'The book of Mormon.'" ↩︎ ↩︎

  11. The 1833 Book of Commandments used "spectacles" in the revelation that became D&C 10. The 1835 Doctrine and Covenants updated this to "Urim and Thummim," reflecting the terminological shift that had occurred by that date. See "Urim and Thummim," Joseph Smith Papers, Glossary. https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/topic/urim-and-thummim ↩︎ ↩︎

  12. Exodus 28:30: "And thou shalt put in the breastplate of judgment the Urim and the Thummim; and they shall be upon Aaron's heart, when he goeth in before the Lord." See also Leviticus 8:8. ↩︎ ↩︎

  13. William Smith, interview published in The Saints' Herald 31 (1884): 644. William described the interpreters as having a silver bow connecting two stones, with "a pocket prepared on the left side [of the breastplate], immediately over the heart." Cited in Scripture Central, "Book of Mormon Evidence: Parallels between the Interpreters and the Urim and Thummim." https://scripturecentral.org/evidence/book-of-mormon-evidence-parallels-between-the-interpreters-and-the-urim-and-thummim ↩︎

  14. Numbers 27:21: Eleazar the priest "shall ask counsel for him after the judgment of Urim before the Lord." See also 1 Samuel 28:6: "And when Saul enquired of the Lord, the Lord answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets." The Urim and Thummim ceased functioning after the destruction of Jerusalem in 587 BC (Ezra 2:63; Nehemiah 7:65). ↩︎ ↩︎

  15. Cornelis Van Dam, The Urim and Thummim: A Means of Revelation in Ancient Israel (Winona Lake, IN: Eisenbrauns, 1997). Van Dam argued that "Urim" derives from a Hebrew root meaning "lights," that the instruments functioned through "an appearance of light," and that they enabled "something very lively and direct" -- complex prophetic communication, not mere lot-casting. ↩︎ ↩︎ ↩︎ ↩︎

  16. David Whitmer described Joseph seeing "an oblong piece of parchment" with "hieroglyphics" and the English translation "in bright luminous letters." Joseph Knight recalled "bright Roman letters." See Scripture Central, "Book of Mormon Evidence: Parallels between the Interpreters and the Urim and Thummim." https://scripturecentral.org/evidence/book-of-mormon-evidence-parallels-between-the-interpreters-and-the-urim-and-thummim ↩︎

  17. Several early Doctrine and Covenants revelations (D&C 3, 6, 7, 10, 11, 14-18) were received through the translation instruments, producing detailed, lengthy texts -- not yes-or-no answers. ↩︎

  18. Stan Spencer, "Reflections of Urim: Hebrew Poetry Sheds Light on the Directors-Interpreters Mystery," Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship 14 (2015): 187-207. Spencer argues that the 1830 Book of Mormon's use of "directors" in Alma 37 may reflect the Hebrew urim, linking the interpreters to both the Liahona and the biblical Urim and Thummim through sophisticated Hebrew wordplay. https://interpreterfoundation.org/journal/reflections-of-urim-hebrew-poetry-sheds-light-on-the-directors-interpreters-mystery/ ↩︎

  19. Robert J. Matthews, who served twenty-five years on the Church Correlation and Evaluation Committee, recalled that project managers producing visual materials never sent artwork for review: "when you see the artwork, that makes all the difference, but it was always too late then." Cited in FAIR, "Has the Church tried to hide Joseph's use of a seer stone?" https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Book_of_Mormon/Translation/Urim_and_Thummim ↩︎

  20. Francis W. Kirkham, Improvement Era 42 (October 1939): 630; "A Peaceful Heart," The Friend (September 1974): 7; James B. Allen and Glen M. Leonard, The Story of the Latter-day Saints (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1976), 40-41; Richard Lloyd Anderson, "By the Gift and Power of God," Ensign (September 1977): 78-85; Russell M. Nelson, "A Treasured Testament," Ensign (July 1993): 61. ↩︎

  21. Joseph Fielding McConkie and Craig J. Ostler, "The Process of Translating the Book of Mormon," in Revelations of the Restoration: A Commentary on the Doctrine and Covenants and Other Modern Revelation (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 2000). ↩︎ ↩︎

  22. Russell M. Nelson, "A Treasured Testament," Ensign (July 1993): 61. Adapted from a talk to mission presidents. Elder Nelson quoted David Whitmer's full description: "Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light." ↩︎

  23. Orson Pratt, reported in Joseph F. Smith diary, cited in "Joseph the Seer," Ensign (October 2015): 50. Joseph explained "the Lord gave him the Urim and Thummim when he was inexperienced in the Spirit of inspiration. But now he had advanced so far that he understood the operations of that Spirit and did not need the assistance of that instrument." ↩︎

  24. B.H. Roberts, Comprehensive History of the Church (Salt Lake City: Deseret News Press, 1930), 1:129. Roberts wrote that the seer stone "possessed the qualities of Urim and Thummim, since by means of it -- as well as by means of the 'Interpreters' found with the Nephite record -- Joseph was able to translate." ↩︎

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