Appearance
Reliability of Spiritual Witnesses
The claim:
"What about the members who felt the Spirit from Dunn's fabricated and false stories? What does this say about the Spirit and what the Spirit really is?"[1]
The CES Letter builds its case across several pages. Paul H. Dunn told fabricated war stories; members felt the Spirit listening to them. People feel the Spirit watching Saving Private Ryan and The Lion King. Apostles counsel members to bear testimony before they have one. A Church-owned company markets "HeartSell" -- "strategic emotional advertising that stimulates response."[2]
The cumulative argument: what Latter-day Saints call "the Spirit" is just emotion. The Church knows it and exploits it.
Some of it lands. Most of it doesn't survive a closer look.
The straw man: "just feelings"
What LDS scripture actually teaches
The CES Letter's entire section depends on one premise: Latter-day Saint testimony reduces to trusting feelings. Here's what the scriptures say:
"I will tell you in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost." (D&C 8:2-3)[3]
"You must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you." (D&C 9:7-9)[4]
Mind and heart. Study first. Then confirmation -- or its absence ("a stupor of thought").
This is not "pray and accept whatever you feel."
| Component | What the scripture requires | What the CES Letter says it requires |
|---|---|---|
| Intellectual engagement | "Study it out in your mind" (D&C 9:8) | Not mentioned |
| Cognitive confirmation | "I will tell you in your mind" (D&C 8:2) | Not mentioned |
| Affective confirmation | "Your bosom shall burn within you" (D&C 9:8) | Reduced to "feelings" |
| Negative signal | "A stupor of thought" if wrong (D&C 9:9) | Not mentioned |
| Scriptural cross-check | "By the mouth of two or three witnesses" (2 Cor. 13:1; D&C 6:28) | Not mentioned |
The CES Letter attacks the bottom row only and ignores everything above it. Anyone who relies exclusively on a warm feeling -- without study, without testing the impression against scripture and reason -- is not following the model their own scriptures describe.[5]
"Burning in the bosom" meant something different in 1829
Stan Spencer's linguistic analysis adds another layer. In 1820s-era English, a "bosom burn" signified settled conviction -- about friendship, virtue, loyalty -- not physical warmth. The burning is an internal witness of alignment, closer to "faith itself" than to the warm fuzzy feeling critics describe.[6]
"Elevation emotion" -- the neuroscience argument
What elevation research actually found
The CES Letter leans on the psychological concept of "elevation" -- a term coined by Jonathan Haidt in 2000. The implied argument: "the burning in the bosom" is just oxytocin released in response to moral beauty. Nothing divine about it.[7]
Haidt's research is real. Elevation is the emotional response to witnessing acts of moral goodness -- unexpected kindness, self-sacrifice, generosity. It produces warmth in the chest, sometimes tears, and a desire to become a better person.[8]
The physical symptoms overlap with how many Latter-day Saints describe "feeling the Spirit."
Shared symptoms don't prove shared causes
Anxiety and excitement both produce elevated heart rate. Grief and relief both produce tears. The fact that two experiences share a physical sensation doesn't mean they're the same thing.
Elevation doesn't account for the full range
Haidt studied warm feelings triggered by witnessing good deeds. Latter-day Saint spiritual experiences include things elevation can't explain:
| Experience type | Consistent with elevation? | Example |
|---|---|---|
| Warmth and uplift during an inspiring talk | Yes | Feeling moved by a General Conference address |
| Specific, detailed promptings | No | "Call this person right now" -- followed by discovering they were in crisis |
| Knowledge of things the person couldn't have known | No | A missionary prompted to visit a specific street with no natural reason |
| Warnings against the person's desires | No | Feeling a "stupor of thought" about a decision you wanted to make |
| Sustained life reorientation | Not typically | Conversion experiences that permanently reshape priorities and behavior |
Elevation is real. It explains some spiritual-adjacent experiences. It doesn't explain a missionary who feels prompted to knock on one more door -- against every emotional impulse -- and finds someone who was praying for help.[9]
The genetic fallacy
Philosopher William James named this error over a century ago: confusing the origin of an experience with its significance. Even if a spiritual experience activates the same neural pathways as elevation, that tells you nothing about whether the experience communicates genuine truth.[10]
Neuroscientist Antonio Damasio's research shows that reason itself requires emotion -- people who lack properly functioning emotions lose the ability to make sound decisions. The Spirit working through emotion doesn't reduce it to emotion.[11]
Blake Ostler, an LDS philosopher, makes the distinction sharply: authentic spiritual experience arrives unbidden, reorients the person's entire worldview, and cannot be produced at will. "To reduce the spiritual experience... to a mere emotion is to reduce it to a point where it simply doesn't make any sense."[11:1]
Paul H. Dunn's fabricated stories
What happened
Paul H. Dunn was a General Authority and one of the most popular speakers in the Church for decades. His stories were vivid -- machine-gun bullets ripping away his clothing without touching his skin, a baseball career marked by providential miracles. Members reported powerful spiritual experiences listening to him.[1:1]
In February 1991, the Arizona Republic published Lynn Packer's investigation revealing that Dunn had fabricated or heavily embellished many of these accounts. His "best friend" who supposedly died in his arms was alive and living in Missouri. He never played for the St. Louis Cardinals -- only for minor league farm teams. His dramatic combat survival stories were composites of other soldiers' experiences or outright inventions.[12]
The Church investigated. Dunn issued a public apology: "I confess that I have not always been accurate in my public talks and writings." Church leaders censured him and imposed a penalty. He had already been given emeritus status in 1989.[13]
The Spirit confirms principles, not biographical details
The CES Letter asks: if people felt the Spirit during lies, what does that say about the Spirit?
It's a fair question. Here's the honest answer.
Dunn's stories were fabricated. The principles they illustrated -- sacrifice, courage, divine protection, faithfulness under fire -- were not.
| What was false | What was true |
|---|---|
| Specific war stories (embellished or invented) | The principle that God strengthens people in adversity |
| Baseball career details (fabricated) | The principle that faith and persistence matter |
| The dramatic framing (manufactured) | The moral of the story (genuine) |
The Spirit's role in Latter-day Saint theology is to "testify of truth" (John 15:26; Moroni 10:5). Jesus taught with parables -- fictional stories conveying true principles. No one claims the Spirit "confirmed a lie" when someone feels moved by the Good Samaritan. The same distinction applies to Dunn's talks: the Spirit confirmed the principles, not the biographical fabrications.[14][15]
Discernment is a skill, not a guarantee
The Dunn case proves exactly what Latter-day Saint theology already teaches: discernment is required. Elder Boyd K. Packer said it plainly:
"The spiritual part of us and the emotional part of us are so closely linked that it is possible to mistake an emotional impulse for something spiritual."[16]
The CES Letter quotes this passage as a damning admission.[17] It's actually a description of a skill every truth-seeking tradition requires. Scientists must distinguish signal from noise. Historians must distinguish reliable sources from unreliable ones. Seekers of spiritual knowledge must distinguish emotion from revelation.
The Church disciplined Dunn. Some members saw through his stories at the time. The system worked -- imperfectly, belatedly, but it worked.[13:1]
"Feeling the Spirit" at movies
"I felt the Spirit watching Saving Private Ryan and Schindler's List. Both R-rated and horribly violent movies. I also felt the Spirit watching Forrest Gump and The Lion King... Does this mean that The Lion King is true?"[18]
The Light of Christ vs. the Holy Ghost
LDS theology distinguishes between two forms of divine influence:
| Source | Scope | Function | Scriptural basis |
|---|---|---|---|
| Light of Christ | Universal -- given to every person | Prompts toward goodness, helps discern good from evil | Moroni 7:16; D&C 84:46 |
| Holy Ghost | Specific -- operates in response to sincere inquiry | Testifies of specific truths, reveals knowledge, gives spiritual gifts | D&C 8:2-3; Moroni 10:3-5 |
Feeling moved by a story of sacrifice (Saving Private Ryan) or loyalty (Forrest Gump) or loss and redemption (The Lion King) is consistent with the Light of Christ operating broadly. The Spirit "testifies of truth wherever it's found" -- including in a film that portrays courage, sacrifice, or human dignity.[19]
It is not the same thing as the Holy Ghost confirming that a historical claim is true after study and prayer.
LDS scholars don't dodge this
Dr. Wendy Ulrich, a psychologist and former president of the Association of Mormon Counselors and Psychotherapists, acknowledged the distinction directly: "Because I feel certain emotions in response to a film -- even a Church film -- may say more about the credibility of the actors' performance or the director's talent than the presence of God."[20]
No one's theology says The Lion King is true. The CES Letter knows this. The question is rhetorical -- and the rhetoric works only if you collapse the distinction between passive emotional response and active revelatory confirmation.
"Bear testimony to gain testimony"
The CES Letter quotes three apostles:[21]
"A testimony is to be found in the bearing of it!" -- Boyd K. Packer[22]
"We gain or strengthen a testimony by bearing it." -- Dallin H. Oaks[9:1]
"Consider recording the testimony of Joseph Smith in your own voice, listening to it regularly... Listening to the Prophet's testimony in your own voice will help bring the witness you seek." -- Neil L. Andersen[23]
The CES Letter frames this as brainwashing: "Just keep telling yourself, 'I know it's true... I know it's true' until you actually believe it."[21:1]
Experimentation, not repetition
Every one of these quotes describes a process that involves the Holy Ghost, not self-hypnosis. Packer's full teaching explains that when a person bears testimony -- even tentative testimony -- the Holy Ghost can confirm what they are saying in the moment of saying it.[22:1]
The principle isn't unique to religion:
| Domain | The practice | What happens |
|---|---|---|
| Education | "Learning by teaching" (protege effect) | Students who explain concepts to others understand them better afterward[24] |
| Music | Practicing a piece before mastering it | Competence develops through doing, not waiting for perfection first |
| Science | Forming a hypothesis and testing it | You act as if something might be true to find out if it is |
| Cognitive therapy | "Act as if" techniques | Behavior change precedes (and often produces) belief change |
| Alma 32 | "Experiment upon my words" (v. 27) | Plant the seed, observe whether it grows |
Alma 32 is the scriptural backbone. Faith is explicitly "not to have a perfect knowledge" (Alma 32:21). The invitation is to test: "experiment upon my words... if it be a true seed... it will begin to swell" (vv. 27-28). This is an empirical, experiential epistemology -- closer to William James's pragmatism than to propaganda.[25]
"How is this honest?"
The CES Letter asks: "How is this honest?"[21:2]
There's a difference between "I don't believe any of this but I'll say I do" and "I believe this may be true, and I'm going to express that belief." The first is lying. The second is how most knowledge works -- you form a provisional belief, you test it, you express it, and the process either confirms or disconfirms it.
That's not manipulation. It's epistemology.
The Spirit and bad decisions
"There are many members who share their testimonies that the Spirit told them that they were to marry this person or go to this school or move to this location or start up this business or invest in this investment. They rely on this Spirit in making critical life decisions. When the decision turns out to be not only incorrect but disastrous, the fault lies on the individual and never on the Spirit."[26]
The CES Letter is right that the "blame the individual, never the Spirit" dynamic can be spiritually harmful. This is a real phenomenon.
The scriptures already warn about this
"Believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God" (1 John 4:1). D&C 46:7 commands members "not to be seduced by evil spirits, or doctrines of devils."
Joseph Smith taught that some promptings come from God, some from the person's own desires, and some from the adversary. Misattributing personal desire to the Spirit is a discernment failure, not a Spirit failure.[19:1]
| Scenario | What likely happened | What the model prescribes |
|---|---|---|
| "The Spirit told me to invest in this company" (investment fails) | Personal desire mistaken for revelation | "Study it out in your mind" -- did you do due diligence? |
| "The Spirit told me to marry this person" (marriage fails) | Infatuation mistaken for confirmation | Test against reason, counsel, and time |
| "The Spirit told me to move across the country" (move goes badly) | Excitement mistaken for prompting | Did the impression persist after study and prayer? |
The argument proves too much
If "sometimes people misinterpret the Spirit" proves the Spirit is unreliable, then the same logic applies everywhere:
- Doctors sometimes misdiagnose. Medicine is not unreliable.
- Scientists sometimes publish flawed studies. The scientific method is not unreliable.
- Eyewitnesses sometimes misremember. Eyewitness testimony is not worthless.
Human fallibility in applying a method does not invalidate the method itself. The CES Letter applies a standard to spiritual experience it would never apply anywhere else.
The "HeartSell" epigraph
The CES Letter opens its Testimony section with a quote from Bonneville Communications (a Church-owned media company):
"Our unique strength is the ability to touch the hearts and minds of our audiences, evoking first feeling, then thought and, finally, action. We call this uniquely powerful brand of creative 'HeartSell' -- strategic emotional advertising that stimulates response."[2:1]
The implication: the Church's advertising arm explicitly describes manufacturing emotion to drive behavior. Therefore testimony meetings and spiritual experiences are all just marketing.
Every ad agency on earth does this
Bonneville Communications was the Church's commercial media production arm. It produced advertisements for secular clients and for the Church. "HeartSell" was a branded term for their advertising approach -- emotional storytelling that prompts the viewer to act.[27]
| Company | Emotional advertising strategy | What it's called |
|---|---|---|
| Nike | Athlete overcoming obstacles | "Brand storytelling" |
| Coca-Cola | Belonging and happiness | "Emotional branding" |
| Apple | Creativity and individuality | "Think Different" |
| Bonneville | Inspiring stories that prompt action | "HeartSell" |
Having a catchy name for an industry-standard practice is not a theological confession.
Bonneville Communications is not the Church's doctrinal arm. Its marketing vocabulary has no bearing on how the Holy Ghost operates any more than a hospital's billing department determines how surgery works.
The positive case: spiritual experience as a way of knowing
| CES Letter's version | What the model actually requires |
|---|---|
| "Pray and trust your feelings" | Study it out in your mind first (D&C 9:8) |
| "Feelings = testimony" | Mind AND heart, both required (D&C 8:2-3) |
| "Repeat until you believe" | Experiment upon the word and observe results (Alma 32:27-28) |
| "Ignore evidence that contradicts feelings" | "The gospel not only permits but requires" balancing reason and revelation[28] |
John W. Welch argues that study and faith must work together, not compete. Evidence functions to remove honest doubt, make belief plausible, and impel spiritual questions. But "the power of the Holy Ghost must ever be the chief source of evidence" -- evidence supports but never replaces spiritual confirmation.[28:1]
Modern longitudinal studies confirm the pattern -- people who report spiritual experiences demonstrate greater psychological resilience and prosocial behavior, with effects persisting for decades across over 3,000 studies reviewed.[29] If spiritual experience were mere emotion, you'd expect it to be fleeting, unstable, and poor at predicting behavior. The data shows the opposite.
(For the full philosophical case -- including Plantinga's "properly basic" argument, Swinburne's principle of credulity, and the epistemological double standard the CES Letter applies -- see Competing Spiritual Claims. For the Canadian copyright revelation and alleged failed prophecies, see Failed Revelations.)
Worth Acknowledging
Discernment is genuinely hard. The line between emotion and spiritual witness is difficult to draw in practice, even for experienced believers. Boyd K. Packer acknowledged this explicitly. People do get it wrong sometimes -- and when they do, the consequences can be real and painful. The honest answer is not "the Spirit never misleads" but rather "the Spirit is reliable; our interpretation sometimes is not." The system requires maturation, and pretending otherwise would undermine the credibility of this entire discussion.
Bottom line: The CES Letter conflates emotion with revelation, then declares revelation unreliable because emotions are unreliable. Latter-day Saint scripture has always taught mind and heart, study before prayer, and discernment as a developed skill -- not blind trust in warm feelings. The cases the CES Letter cites (Paul Dunn, movies, elevation research) actually illustrate why that distinction matters, not why it fails.
Runnells, CES Letter (2017), "Testimony & Spiritual Witness," no. 6, pp. 77-78. ↩︎ ↩︎
Runnells, CES Letter (2017), "Testimony & Spiritual Witness," p. 74. The quote is attributed to Bonneville Communications, an LDS Church-owned media company. ↩︎ ↩︎
Doctrine and Covenants 8:2-3. "Yea, behold, I will tell you in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost, which shall come upon you and which shall dwell in your heart." ↩︎
Doctrine and Covenants 9:7-9. "You must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right. But if it be not right you shall have no such feeling, but you shall have a stupor of thought." ↩︎
"Holy Ghost / Latter-day Saint Epistemology," FAIR. https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Holy_Ghost/_Latter-day_Saint_Epistemology ↩︎
Stan Spencer, "The Faith to See: Burning in the Bosom and Translating the Book of Mormon in Doctrine and Covenants 9," Interpreter: A Journal of Mormon Scripture 18 (2016): 219-232. https://interpreterfoundation.org/journal/the-faith-to-see-burning-in-the-bosom-and-translating-the-book-of-mormon-in-doctrine-and-covenants-9/ ↩︎
Runnells, CES Letter (2017), "Testimony & Spiritual Witness," p. 79. Runnells links to a video at cesletter.org/spirit addressing "the reliability of 'a witness from the Holy Ghost' for discerning truth and reality." ↩︎
Jonathan Haidt, "The Positive Emotion of Elevation," Prevention and Treatment 3, no. 3 (2000). See also Jonathan Haidt, "Elevation and the Positive Psychology of Morality," in Flourishing: Positive Psychology and the Life Well-Lived, ed. Corey L.M. Keyes and Jonathan Haidt (Washington, DC: APA, 2003), 275-289. ↩︎
Dallin H. Oaks, "Testimony," General Conference, April 2008. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2008/04/testimony ↩︎ ↩︎
William James, The Varieties of Religious Experience: A Study in Human Nature (New York: Longmans, Green, and Co., 1902). James identified four marks of mystical experience: ineffability, noetic quality, transiency, and passivity. He attacked the "genetic fallacy" -- confusing the origin of an experience with its significance or value. ↩︎
Blake T. Ostler, "Spiritual Experiences as the Basis for Belief and Commitment," FAIR Conference, August 2007. https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/conference/august-2007/spiritual-experiences-as-the-basis-for-belief-and-commitment ↩︎ ↩︎
Lynn Packer, "The Paul Dunn Stories," Arizona Republic, February 16, 1991. The investigation documented that Dunn had fabricated or heavily embellished accounts of wartime combat and a professional baseball career. See also Sunstone 15, no. 6 (December 1991). ↩︎
Paul H. Dunn, open letter to Church members, Church News, October 26, 1991. Dunn wrote: "I confess that I have not always been accurate in my public talks and writings. Furthermore, I have indulged in other activities inconsistent with the high and sacred office which I have held... [Church leaders] have censured me and placed a heavy penalty upon me." ↩︎ ↩︎
"Detailed Response to CES Letter, Testimony and Spiritual Witness," FAIR. https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Detailed_response_to_CES_Letter,_Testimony_and_Spiritual_Witness ↩︎
Sarah Allen, "The CES Letter Rebuttal, Part 41," FAIR Blog, January 14, 2022. Allen argues the Spirit confirms gospel principles embedded in narratives, not the biographical accuracy of every detail. https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/blog/2022/01/14/41 ↩︎
Boyd K. Packer, "The Candle of the Lord," Ensign, January 1983. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1983/01/the-candle-of-the-lord ↩︎
Runnells, CES Letter (2017), "Testimony & Spiritual Witness," no. 4, pp. 76-77. Runnells quotes Packer's "Candle of the Lord" passage about mistaking emotion for spiritual experience. ↩︎
Runnells, CES Letter (2017), "Testimony & Spiritual Witness," no. 9, p. 79. ↩︎
Sarah Allen, "The CES Letter Rebuttal, Part 42," FAIR Blog, January 19, 2022. https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/blog/2022/01/19/42 ↩︎ ↩︎
Wendy Ulrich, "'Believest thou...?': Faith, Cognitive Dissonance, and the Psychology of Religious Experience," FAIR Conference 2005. https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/blog/2011/09/28/believest-thou-faith-cognitive-dissonance-and-the-psychology-of-religious-experience ↩︎
Runnells, CES Letter (2017), "Testimony & Spiritual Witness," no. 7, pp. 78-79. ↩︎ ↩︎ ↩︎
Boyd K. Packer, "The Quest for Spiritual Knowledge," New Era, January 2007, 2-7. The core statement -- "a testimony is to be found in the bearing of it" -- originates from Packer's 1982 address to Church Educational System faculty, later published as "The Candle of the Lord." https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/new-era/2007/01/the-quest-for-spiritual-knowledge ↩︎ ↩︎
Neil L. Andersen, "Joseph Smith," General Conference, October 2014. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2014/10/joseph-smith ↩︎
Logan Fiorella and Richard E. Mayer, "The Relative Benefits of Learning by Teaching and Teaching Expectancy," Contemporary Educational Psychology 38, no. 4 (2013): 281-288. The "protege effect" demonstrates that explaining concepts to others deepens the explainer's own understanding. ↩︎
Elaine Shaw Sorensen, "Seeds of Faith: A Follower's View of Alma 32," BYU Religious Studies Center. https://rsc.byu.edu/book-mormon-alma-testimony-word/seeds-faith-followers-view-alma-32 ↩︎
Runnells, CES Letter (2017), "Testimony & Spiritual Witness," no. 8, p. 79. ↩︎
"Bonneville Communications and HeartSell," FAIR. https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Mormonism_and_church_integrity/Bonneville_International_"Heartsell" ↩︎
John W. Welch, "The Role of Evidence in Religious Discussion," BYU Religious Studies Center, in No Weapon Shall Prosper. https://rsc.byu.edu/no-weapon-shall-prosper/role-evidence-religious-discussion ↩︎ ↩︎
Harold G. Koenig, Dana E. King, and Verna Benner Carson, Handbook of Religion and Health, 2nd ed. (New York: Oxford University Press, 2012). Meta-analyses covering over 3,000 studies show consistent positive associations between religious experience and mental health, prosocial behavior, and life satisfaction. ↩︎